November 12, 2008

Activism! part 2

So yesterday I introduced you to part of a Facebook note I'd written entitled "It's not about YOU". I figured it would slip under since it was more of a rant than anything encouraging, but it drummed up some interesting responses anyway. And by interesting I mean "No longer friends with".

Juuust kidding.

Anyway, the beginning of the conversation starts like this:

Its most definetly the next great issue our country will face, and sadly marriage laws (as Im sure you know) are delegated to the states, so there's nothing any President can do about it. Damn. This is when we like centralized authority...But also I should like to note that I think New England is just trying to clear its' name from that whole Salem Affair.

That's from my friend PW who's pretty intelligent. For some reason I scoffed at that though, and said:

Even if the president could do anything he's already said he's against gay marriage.

"Next great issue" my ass. Gay marriage didn't just suddenly pop up...and as long as America decides to turn both eyes blind to the rights of others it's not going to go away.

Here's where the fun really begins, with that scoff oddly enough. My brother-in-arms Daniel jumps in and kinda derails and fucks up the duration of the dialogue, not intentionally:

well, the "against gay marriage thing" is not the same as "against giving gay couples equal rights"

You can hear the collective "Rrrriiiight."

Oh isn't it? Please explain to the class Daniel..., I say.

It kind of is the same thing. Marriage gives you legal rights. We are looking (we being me and the gays HAHAH) for legal documentation, not the right to walk down an isle, my other compadre BF says.

Daniel defends himself valiantly and...well, at least he was valiant.

no, i meant that Obama stated that he was against gay "marriage", but that is mainly because there isn't any such thing, as marriage is essentially strictly a religious thing, he does support civil unions, which would give gay couples the same rights as hetero

Okay--wait, what?

So the core of Daniel's argument--mind you he's still responding to my scoff more or less--is that civil unions are the same thing, legally, as marriages, except, as I point out a few times to him over AIM, THEY'RE NOT. Ideally, they would be but if civil unions were totally equal to marriage in every way except religious ceremony, then I don't think there would be such an uproar over "gay marriages" would you?

While Daniel and I are duking it out, Mr Matt chimes in with this enlightened view:

I've recently revised my possition on the whole gay marriage thing(like in the last few days), and i have to say I'm against the idea of govt forced acceptance of it. Before you blow my door down allow me to present why. Marriage IS, under every circumstance, a religous institution, and Thomas Jefferson said that church and state should be seperated. So if a church wants to marry gays, WOOHOO!!!! but if another church down the street doesn't wan to marry gays, then geuss what?.....yup thats right WOOHOO!!!! They have made a decision that was their's to make. I dont think it ignorant for a church to not let gays marry. but i do think it ignorant for the govt to force the churches to let gays marry.

Another collective "...Rrrrriiiiiiggghhhtt...." from the gallery.

He doesn't want the government to force gay marriages on the Church, which is good because the government can't do that anyway. WHAT THE FUCK?

Daniel collects himself and charges back in with one more point:

I think the issue here, the issue being both the greater issue and the issue of nobody understanding what the hell I'm saying, is the word "marriage"
The point is, we want homosexual couples to have the same rights as heterosexual couples, right? right, so FU to people upset at me for no reason. However this is to be achieved is immaterial at this point. We must do all we can.

Danz, sometimes unfortunately, is like me: he can't let shit go and likes to make really obtuse arguments, in that what he's saying makes sense it just has shit to do with anything. Yes, he really is still refuting my scoff and this conversation has gone on for HOURS at this point. DAMN!

Frankly, I think PW comes in and probably makes the best point about the struggle for gay marriage rights:

...Its not something I can identfiy with because lets just face it strait people will never truly understand. We can sympathize but we don't get it. Its gonna be hard. Don't think it will be easy. It will be so very hard. But we'll see.

So! I think that's probably one of the few...ambiguously successful dialogues I've ever had *blink* I've had them in the past and they're usually fine but I have no earthly idea where this one went to. It's kinda my fault for derailing it so hard with my cynical scoffing, I think I should have stayed out of this one. But I was really bored ;_;

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